Hi LL:

I am a 30 year old newly single lady.  I have a strong attraction for a younger man.  23 years old to be exact.  He is devastatingly gorgeous yet humble and doesn’t even know it.  He is clearly not on my level in terms of life but I am a hopeless romantic who believes in taking chances.  I have been burnt before trusting my heart to a young, inexperienced, immature, not ready to settle down man before.  The outcome was never good.  Is he different?  We definitely have made a few casual connections and flirting is taking place.  I have asked a guy friend to feel out the situation being that he knows us both.  This is a work related situation.  I completely light up when i see him and think it might be worth a date.  I am pretty sure he would be down and really want to see what he’s all about.  Am I wasting my time?  He is 23!  I want a husband and I’m sure he isn’t ready for a wife yet.  I could be wrong.  Your thoughts?

Love Lab says:

When it comes to relationships and friends I’m always available, always responsive, and almost always there if I’m invited somewhere.  I’m not desperate or anything, I’m just that way. To this day, the only relationships I’ve ever really had work were the ones where I never had to play games. So some questions:

1) should the lesson be that I should not pursue a girl that doesn’t just reciprocate equaly? (like we boys might do the picking up but is  it ultimately their decision)?

2) Is playing the game worth it? Like even if I get her to go on a date am I ultimately just wasting my time?

3) Does it just boil down to they like you or they don’t…not a matter of how you play the game at all?

4) Once I’ve pursued a girl that once showed interest but no longer seems to be is there ever something that can really regain their interest again?

5) Is there maybe some kind of level of distrust about someone that is so available?

6) If the girl is the one reaching out, how does one excercise caution and not suddenly become too available?

7) Most importantly, is there a single good rule to live by for this?

Thanks!

LOVELAB SAYS:

Dear Danny,

Being available is actually a very appealing quality…once you are already in a relationship. It is also an appealing quality during courtship when someone is seeking you out. It let’s the woman know that you are reliable. Being available when needed and MAKING yourself available and at someone’s disposal are different things. If you are responsive and consistent you are sending the message that you are a serious candidate. To answer your questions in brief:

1) It is ultimately the woman’s choice and she will know very quickly whether you are a prospective mate. Your job is to figure out whether she is really interested or is leading you on to have someone pursue her. The best test is to see how she responds to you physically. A girl will allow a mental connection and even spend lots of time with a guy she has a limited interest in, but she is less likely to give herself away physically unless she wants to be with you. Sure there are purely physical relationships, but there shouldn’t be confusion when you find yourself in one of those.

2) You are not wasting your time, because if she agreed to go on a date chances are you appealed to her in some way. This would be your chance to charm her.

3) It boils down whether they are attracted to you or not. Generally this will be known within the first three dates, but some girls will know by the first date. If a girl isn’t being very responsive after the first or second date you can either pursue full force and see if it changes anything or just give up and move on. Some girls will respond to men who are very persistent even if they are unsure about them at first.

4) It depends to why she lost the interest…If it’s because something showed her you are not a good long term partner and she cannot take you seriously, then you would have to somehow change her perception of that for her to consider you again. If she is no longer physically attracted to you then it may be a lost cause.

5) I don’t think there is a level of distrust about availability, but perhaps people will not respect your time as much if they think you are so generous with it. You can think of it in terms of supply and demand; the value of something goes up when it is in higher demand.

6) If the girl is reaching out and you like her and take her seriously, you should be responsive and be available when she wants you there. If you want to be cautious, then you can pace when reciprocating the planning. Just stay in tune with what she is conveying by her actions.

7) Pacing and empathy. Try to stay on the same page and be aware of the other person’s feelings whether they are in your favor or not. It is in your best interest to understand the needs of the other person, even if they do not coincide with your own. This will save you time in the end.

For specific examples, please contact me at consulting@lovelabonline.com.

I’m in looooovvvvvvveeeeeeee!!! – Now what?

LOVELAB says:

Dear Caliber,

Although you are not giving me a lot of background on this one, I will assume that you have just fallen in love and you are hoping that everything runs smoothly in order for you to receive positive feedback from the object of your love.

I think the important thing to remember when you are in love is pacing. You want to stay on the same page as the person whom you are in love with so that they can explore their own feelings without pressure. You want to avoid putting the person in a position where they have to ‘decide’ on passionate feelings rather than letting it overcome them through the wonderful interactions you both enjoy.

Another very important factor in encouraging and maintaining passion is engaging in novel activities and exciting activities together. This not only builds positive memories, but also allows your partner to associate feelings of excitement and good times with you.

Good luck!

We are not talking right now. I’m ok with giving her space. But how can I make sure not to fall back into selfish behaviors if/when we do connect again?

LOVELAB SAYS:

Dear Sleepless in Brooklyn,

It is great that you have taken the time to reflect on this situation. Regardless of a relationship outcome, I believe the success of any relationship can be measured by its positive transformational power.

What you can take away from this experience is that you cannot force someone to like you. Both men and women often hang on that glimmer of hope that someone whom they like will reciprocate. If this girl has already expressed to you she doesn’t want anything romantic, you need to accept this and move on. Your job as a man is to figure out whether a woman is interested during the courtship process and invest your time wisely based on the cues you receive. If you want to not fall back into selfish behaviors, you may want to consider moving on from focusing on this girl as the object of your affection and pursuing individuals who are open to your advances.

If you value her as a person, you can continue to engage her as a friend once some time has passed. If she seems resistant at first, you can apologize and make it clear to her that you will not further pursue her romantically. Eventually, if you stay true to your word, she will begin to trust you again. The challenge for you is to get over her so that you are not creating tension and emotional heaviness in this dynamic.

I also noted that you said she “expressed that she just wants to be friends right now”. You have to be prepared that when she used the word “right now” it may actually mean she only wants to be friends period. Women often tell guys they are not interested in romantically that they want to be friends for the time being, leaving that possibility open that something might happen in the future. This can be because they don’t want to compoletely shut a guy down and hurt this ego; alternatively, it can mean they enjoy having suitors around. In reality, when someone says to you they are not interested right now, you have to accept the possibility that they may never be and not spend your time and emotional energy on something that may never materialize.

I get it, I really do.  I understand it – I pick out a mate for the purpose of my reproduction.  My genes dictate that I find that right one – even if it’s a settled but safe lover, and stick to them.  As you put it so eloquently in your earlier articles, marriage is nothing but a social (and legal) contract to ensure the welfare of offspring.  So then by today’s societal standards, we find someone we’re willing to work with – someone who we feel has the same values for parenthood.  We pick them, have a relationship, and when the excitement dies – you start a family.  See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTkp9UqVVHs

But what if you’re not after marriage?  What if you found someone who you feel can offer your offspring all that is needed but do not want a family?  What happens when you agree that you’re great for each other but don’t want to take that next step (for circumstantial reasons – career, money, etc.).  Then by definition, the relationship will continue until your passion and excitement dies out.

Do you just go on day by day until that happens?  Do you wait for the relationship wilts or for one of us to commit adultery?  What happens when that initial thrill, those butterflies of love die out and you’re left with of a relationship to have a family but no desire to start one?  Do you end it?  What if you don’t want to hurt the other person?  Now what?

LOVELAB SAYS:

Dear TE,

Not all relationships fizzle out. Sure, many do. But I think it is underestimated how many are alive and strong with these rumors of outrageous divorce rates flying around (the statistics diverge when you consider women who are over 23 years of age and college educated, diminishing that notorious 50%). I think many couples simply don’t have the skills (mainly communication skills) necessary to sustain long term love.

To give you an uplifting example, I assisted in an fMRI study which looked at couples who were in love for over 10 years. These individuals were happy and vibrant and they were absolutely in love (with sex and all) with their partner, whether they were 40 years old or 60 years old!  When looking at their loved ones in an fMRI, similar brain regions were activated (amongst additional ones) as those which were seen in couples who have recently fallen in love. What is more, several studies indicate that these people are not as unique in our society as we have been conditioned to think (I suppose happily married couples don’t make for fun media/television/movie subjects). The following article talks a little about this work: http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi-bin/read/2009/01_25-34/LIF

There are certainly things a couple can do to sustain their love. Research by Dr. Arthur Aron has shown, for example, that engaging in novel and stimulating activities with your partner can benefit the relationship and keep the dopamine levels high (dopaminergic systems are implicated in that ‘in love’ feeling). How a couple communicates, particularly during arguments, is also of severe importance; various research endeavors have shown that communicating positive emotions (both physical and verbal) during arguments can be beneficial. Another important quality that has been shown to appear in great relationships is ‘capitalizing’. This means that when your partner expresses positive emotions or news, you reciprocate the positivity and capitalize on it by amplifying it. For example, if your partner tells you about his exciting day at work and you say “Wow, that is great! I am so happy for you!” as opposed to “That’s great, but this also means you will be spending less time at home” or “Oh, that’s cool, do you know yet whether you’ll be able to come to dinner with me this weekend?” Personally, I think empathy on both parts is absolutely critical since it will largely impact how a couple communicates with each other and their ability to reach compromises. By communicating effectively, a couple is able to minimize the negativity of a relationship and emphasize the positives.

As far as the situation you mentioned, where you may have found a great guy but it seems to be poor timing, consider that timing is often a factor whether we like it or not. If this person is really a keeper then you can stick it out and try to maintain your love (with some examples I mentioned above). If BOTH of you are simply not ready for legitimate reasons, then this shouldn’t be too much of an issue. If you are ready and he is not, then you have to consider whether this is the right situation for you since you may be losing out on the opportunity to meet a guy who IS ready.

As far as letting them know when the love dies out…well, you only live once and you cannot worry about hurting someone’s feelings about such major decisions as long as you are being fair. If this is not the right situation for you then this person who loves you has to understand that and will hopefully heal in time. You are hurting them more by staying with them if the love is no longer there since you are keeping them from being in another fulfilled relationship (as well as yourself).

BTW..Love the video! =)

[Quote: "Some of us are becoming the men we wanted to marry." - Gloria Steinem]

Asking Someone Out

You’re HOT – How can I date you?

Wait. I have a love advice question too. How can a guy get one of those high quality girls who seem almost out of reach – the celebrities, the movie stars, the girl running the website, the models, the “high status” girls.

It’s not like I interact with them every day. How do I come across them more? And if I see them, what do I do?

Thanks. And, oh, how can I date you?

LOVELAB SAYS:

Dear DD,

It is interesting that you emphasize ’status’ per se since high status is not as important a factor for men as it is for women when it comes to choosing mates. Also, I would like to point out that models are not necessarily high status females, unless they are famous or supermodels. Although they may be coveted by men, it isn’t because of their status, but because of their beauty. They perhaps raise the status of the male, but this doesn’t make them high status.

Status is determined by an individual’s relative rank in the social hierarchy. In American society this is largely determined by fiscal fitness; in general, money and connections will determine your rank since that is what yields influence. Individuals of high status, both male and female, will have first pickings in mate selection and material resources. Celebrity women are indeed included in this category. So like high status men, women of the highest status may choose beauty/youth instead of following a reproductive strategy of most other women (who take resources largely into account). This trend is well characterized by the following celebrity couples:

Madonna and Guy Ritchie

Halle Berry and Gabriel Aubry

Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher

So how does a guy get a really high status woman? It seems you have to be somewhat beautiful and have a laid back personality. These women don’t need to settle on anything; since resources – and the drawbacks that come with men that have them – are not an issue, an ego and a macho attitude probably won’t do you much good. It seems you need to have enough of your own status to flow in their circles, but your own status may not be as much of a factor as it is for the ‘highly desired’ women (discussed in my response to Caliber).

Which brings me to your next question…how do you come across the high status females. Like I said above, you need to flow in those circles in order to meet them. In different metropolitan cities, there are different places where the jet set mingle. New York, for example, is quite elitist and certain places bring in that high status crowd you are looking for.

Rose Bar at the Gramercy Park Hotel has a sophisticated and attractive clientele, as well as a strict door policy (Paris Hilton and her sister are not welcome). Sometimes doorman numero uno will let you get through into the front bar area, but you pretty much have to know someone to get into back area.

Other places where you may find high status frequenters are: Socialista, The Box, 1Oak, Beatrice Inn (hipsterish), and Cipriani. There are plenty of others, I am sure.

What do you do when you see them? Too in depth to discuss here, but in brief, be charming and confident!

Oh, and how can you date me? Hmmm, I dunno…look like Ashton and act like Bruce?

Hi Miss Love Lab,

Before I ask my question, I just wanted to comment on how lovely you look in your picture on the Ask Love Lab page!

That being said, I was curious about your thoughts on why women who may be allured by a man’s money or power, can seem almost equally or even more so swayed merely by a man’s good looks? Especially in the case when said man has no other resources, including of course, any wealth or power. I have seen some of my closest girlfriends go nuts over a guy just because he had a gorgeous face (or even one that was merely attractive), and most of them also usually shunned men who had other highly desirable attributes, such as high intellect, worldly success, and even (gasp) status. If you can shed any light on this matter, it would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Arisannah

LOVELAB SAYS:

Hi Arisannah,

Thank you so much for your compliment.

Now to answer your question, I’d like to point out that beauty is not only in the eyes of the beholder. Humans are conditioned to find certain types of traits ‘beautiful’ cross culturally. Certainly, there are geographical and decade-specific variations (TE’s example of the chubbier women) but even that can be boiled down to biological reasons for the most part (in those times chubbier women were of higher status since they could afford to lead more sedentary lifestyles and were more well fed). Nonetheless, there are enduring qualities which human beings respond to (even babies!). To name a few: bilateral symmetry (left side closely matching the right side), closeness to the .7 hip to waist ratio in women (similar in Marylin Monroe and Kate Moss despite their seemingly different body types), well developed cheekbones in both men and women, full lips in women, developed jaw bone in men, healthy skin in both men and women.

Kate Moss: wide hips, small waist

Most of these traits are determined by the amount of sex hormones we produce (specifically the ratio of the sex hormones) which lead to the development of sexually dimorphic traits during puberty. They signify fertility in women and virility in men; they also signify general fitness in both men and women (health related traits like good skin).

For both men and women, the ultimate goal is successful reproduction (that means good genes being passed on and ensuring that the young have sufficient resources to develop until independent). Men and women use different strategies to achieve this, with women having the additional need for resources since they are generally the ones who wind up rearing the young. Although both sexes strive to mate with good genes, women have developed a DUAL MATING strategy to ensure that whatever young they produce they will be able to survive into adulthood. This dual mating strategy is partly possible through the female’s ability to hide her estrus (so men generally do not know when we are ovulating). We have developed an extended sexuality, having nonconceptual sex (sex not leading to conception) throughout our menstrual cycle. One possible explanation for this is that this strategy allows us to secure material benefits from partners who stick around in hopes of impregnating us. Also, they may stick around in hopes of ensuring that other men will not copulate with us and thus confuse parenting.

Studies have shown that women with less attractive partners are particularly drawn to men with ‘good genes’ during their ovulation. Our biology still dictates that we need good genes, but since there is a strong need to secure resources most women will try to get the best possible balance between these often competing factors. I think most girls will attest that it is extremely difficult to monopolize a man who has both good genes and ample resources, oftentimes because those men have no need to settle down and refuse to be monopolized.

Perhaps the women you mention have less need for those resources so they feel it is less necessary for them to focus on this (otherwise they are pursuing an unwise mating strategy). Another reason is that they may be highly desirable females who believe they have the chance to monopolize a man who has both good looks and perhaps the potential to have the resources (certain traits like humor, creativity, and talent indicate such potential). For example, as mentioned in my response to Caliber, highly desirable females (particularly those with estrogen markers that exhibit fertility) have less fluctuations in their attraction for a ‘good gene’ type of guy during their menstrual cycle and tend to prefer that sort of a man throughout.  This makes sense, since they are more likely to actually attain that sort of a guy.

It seems estrogen really likes testosterone and vice versa

Dear LoveLab,

I recently started reading “The Game” – the book on pickup artists – and am feeling inspired. My question is two-fold:

1) I want to get involved in the pickup artists society, I understand that it exists on the internet – and somewhat in the real world. I want to get out there as the alias “Caliber” (you’ll know why based on my second question below) so, I would like to know: where can I find these online blogs/discussion groups, etc? Do these people meet in real life? Where? Do you have any specific sites or locations?

2) I am a good looking guy and I know how to work women. Some. Usually the ones that are “below my standards.” I have no problem attracting and hooking the so-so girls. I want to up the caliber of women that I get. Hence, my name will be “Caliber.” So, since I have the basic concept down, how do I get the really hotttt girls? Are they any different than the less attractive girls? Should my approach be any different? I know I feel a lot more nervous and lose my game around the hot ones. Help!

LOVELAB SAYS:

Hi Caliber,

1) I am all for inspiration – and I appreciate the empowerment that advanced social skills can bring into ones dating life – however I must say that your quest for ‘hooking’ beautiful women probably has little to do with relationships and love per se. It sounds like you are asking me how to get laid and that question would probably be better addressed by Mystery himself (you can buy his book through Amazon, below). Furthermore, I have ethical issues with promoting sociopathic behaviors. I think winning the affection of a beautiful woman is one thing, but ‘hooking’ and ‘getting’ her for purposes not specified but inferred from your verbiage goes against the mission of this website.

As far as meeting places, I have no idea why you would think I would know where pick up artists meet! However, I did hear through the grapevine that Mystery and his friend Metador were spotted on a Monday night at Butter this past November. I hear they were working the room like a circus.

Butter NYC

2) I may want to give you the benefit of the doubt about wanting to attract beautiful women of your own caliber. You have to remember one thing. Both women and men want SYMMETRY. And I am not only talking about the bilateral kind…which actually plays a crucial role in attraction on a biological level. I am talking about symmetry in being. There are factors that make women highly valued mates and those that raise the value of a man. For women, these factors include estrogen and youth markers (see my posts on LOVE IS NOT A FEELING) and for men they may be societal status and testosterone markers (see my posts on THE MODERN ALPHA MALE and THE MODERN ALPHA MALE: WHY WOMEN LOVE HIM). You clearly want highly valued women so you have to ask yourself if you are a highly valued male. You already said you are good looking, which is a good start. Attractive women, even more so than less attractive ones, are more likely to be attracted to symmetrical men with masculine features throughout their menstrual cycle (whereas less attractive women are more likely to be attracted to these types of men only during their ovulation). However, in order to attract a beautiful woman, you must have other resources at bay. Money and power can be important for a man to attract a really beautiful woman since these are the things that signify status in our society. If you don’t have that, a great sense of humor or impressive creative abilities/talents can substitute. I believe that the mating market is quite efficient in forming unions of relatively equal value (at least in the sense that both individuals believe they are of equal value, as this could be a confidence issue), so I am going to go and assume that you have not yet cultivated these other factors, otherwise you would have found your hotty.

Hi Ms. Lovelab. I am a HUGE fan of your writing and so glad to see you have an advice column up. Anyways, I am a 27 year old male that goes on dates all the time. When is it okay to smack a girl’s bottom, just a light tap (length of time into the date). In general I’d like to know how soon I can initiate various forms of contact with her such as holding her hand, making out, taking her back to my place, the usual… I don’t want to come off as a jerk or too forward but I definitely be forward enough.

- Love The Booty

Stay classy Lovelab

LOVELAB SAYS:

Hello BootyLover,

I think small forms of physical contact should be initiated as soon as a verbal rapport has been set up. For example, if you have gotten to the point where you can get a girl to laugh or giggle, this would be an opportune time to lightly touch her on the hand or on the back or on the back of her shoulder. This will anchor whatever positive feelings she is experiencing at the time of the moment and associate them with you. Once you see a positive response to this behavior (she doesn’t retract or exhibit disgust), you can move on to more aggressive feats. By the end of the date, you can attempt to grab the hand if you are walking around or walking back to the car. If this goes well, you can try to squeeze her hand while you are holding it towards the end of the night. If she responds by looking at you and smiling (or looking with eye contact), pull her closer and go for the kiss.

You should wait until date number 2 to lightly smack the tush, if all goes according to plan on date 1. Make sure to apologize right after